4EFE differences

[Jay]

It's not often I have a topic worth public discussion but I'd love to hear some feedback on this one.

How does the exported 4EFE (75bhp) differ from the Japanese 4EFE (100bhp)?

I know for a fact that the injectors and ecu differ but would there be internal differences as well? it might explain why some turbo'ed 4EFE's last longer than others..

Thoughts welcome guys,

Jay

[ivan]

1. differences in the rods, where the jap spec uses 4efte rods.

2. differences with valve springs, and im talking BIG differences.

3. differences between ignition (exported models had coil-in-dizzy where jdm had seperate coil)

4. Inlet manifolds are different, the jdm used the 4efte manifold.

5. crank pulley is larger, and hevier on the jdm (same as 4efte). They are both harmonic balancers however, regardless of what some may say. They both have a rubberised compound in the middle.

Thats all that comes to mind right now, but there are definately more.

[jezza323]

rev limit - 6200 for crappy one, higher for other model :)

[Jay]

Interesting - so basically the JDM 4EFE is much closer to the 4EFTE wereas everyone else got a watered-down girlie version?

I'm guessing the 75bhp exported 4EFE would immediately shit itself if I popped the injectors, inlet manifold, ECU and ignition system onto it...or would it slowly soil itself over a period of time instead?

[jezza323]

mine valve bounces @ about 6700 rpm cos of the crappy valve springs

also the intake manifold is more restrictive, giving more torque down low, but less up top. mine makes peak power @ about 5700 rpm or so now

but the lighter internals (rods) would help it to rev quicker than the model with the stronger rods, just a question of how long they will last.

EDIT: also the cam profile may be different, cant confirm or deny this though

[ivan]

The cam lift is the same, i can confirm that, however the duration i am not sure of.

When turbocharging a 4EFE (non jdm) the motor will shit itself, die in the ass and with spin a bearing, valve bounce like nothing else, detonate to the shithouse, snap a rod and put a hole in the block.

basically its not worth it. You are better off buying a 5efhe (jap spec), changing to lower comp forged pistons and be done with it.

ivan

[Jay]

That's some good info there lads, thanks for the heads up.

I have a uk-spec 4EFE and would like to increase the power. because I have a spare JDM 4EFE from an EP85 lying here I was toying with the idea of swapping a few components across but I hadn't heard of the valve spring difference until you mentioned it. That's probably saved me a few $$ and a shitload of hassle!

So basically it would make much more sense to drop the JDM unit in complete.

Guess I could test the crappy UK spec one to destruction if I wanted to seeing as there's a perfect replacement available. :D

[jezza323]

i will be swapping 4efte valve springs and 5efhe cams into my 4efe sometime in the near future.......then sticking quad throttles on it

its all just a matter of time and money

[ivan]

personally, if i were you i would get my hands on a 5efhe engine, and a put your jdm 4efe head on it (that you get ported) and throw in some forged pistons. It would be a reasonably cheap engine that will definately make more than 300hp depending on turbo/boost/fuel.

Ivan

[HardcoreEP]

The 100hp 4EFE was only available in the EP82 Gi which was a N1 homologation car. The highest hp FE after that is the 85bhp EP91 Glanza S

[ivan]

Rory,

Can you talk abit more about this N1 homolgation car?

Not sure im quite following what you are saying.

ivan

[HardcoreEP]

For Japanese N1 racing the cars for the class must be production models, just like the WRC, and other racing series. So they made the Gi with a 100hp 1.3litre engine and a different final drive (3.9 vs. the standard 3.7) over the standard 4EFE. This is the car that qualified as a racecar in the 1300cc N1 endurance class, and the All Japan Rally Championship. Contrary to popular belief this is the car that they raced the most, not the GT, because it was legal for the classes. The same thing applies to the great N1 1600cc war of the mid-90s with the Honda Civic TypeR, Levin BZR, Nissan VZR, and Mirage RS. Those were all factory racers built to compete in that class.

[Jay]

Ivan, lack of 5E's and the Cheapy McCheapness of the 4EFE in question makes this a relatively easy engine swap. 100bhp isn't a bad upgrade from 75bhp plus it'll look pretty stock under MOT inspection.

Hardcore - you sure mate? My brochures tell me different?

Here's the engine I have:

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/5996/brakepadsanddiscs3473aq4.th.jpg (http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brakepadsanddiscs3473aq4.jpg)

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/256/brakepadsanddiscs3476qb0.th.jpg (http://img371.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brakepadsanddiscs3476qb0.jpg)

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/4308/brakepadsanddiscs3463re1.th.jpg (http://img371.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brakepadsanddiscs3463re1.jpg)

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/5678/brakepadsanddiscs3438xc2.th.jpg (http://img371.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brakepadsanddiscs3438xc2.jpg)

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/803/brakepadsanddiscs3475xs4.th.jpg (http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brakepadsanddiscs3475xs4.jpg)

4E-FE engine code

100ps @ 6,600rpm
11.6 kg-m/5,200rpm
0-60 in 9.6secs

Gearbox code is C50F

[HardcoreEP]

Starlet 3Door Gi E-EP82-AGMVK
4E-FE
100ps/6600rpm
11.8kgm/5200rpm
Weight:800kgs

Got it from MotorFAN 82 and several J's Magazines I have. According to the JDM brochure in the MotorFAN, the 100bhp 4E-FE (black cam cover) comes in the three/five door Gi, S, and Si model. However, the Gi model has the 3.941 final drive. The others have 3.526.

[G6turbo]

Wich 4E-FE engine is this then? Its my old 4E-FE from my corolla G6 its got a strange coil too

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i151/rollaturbo/legemotorruimte2Small.jpg

i believe its the 89 hp engine but i am not sure....

[ivan]

its just a 4efe with a different inlet manifold and distributorless ignition system. Personally i have only seen one of these as a 5E but i think paul from NZ may have the answer for this one.

Ivan

[G6turbo]

alright any info on this ignition system? As i am having problems in making my REV meter work.... it just flips up and down cant get it working.
Could it be that the signals of the FTE and my strange FE were different??

cheers Wesley

[rmsNoel]

Would the UKDM 4efe crank be suitable for turbo engine?

[ivan]

the difference is that the tacho is getting only 1 pulse from coil 1.

What you need to do is get a module that allows input from 4 coils. www.autronic.com.au used to sell them on their website for the SMC computer because it didnt come out with a dedicated rpm output(from memory).

Ask on ToyMods.net about how to do it (do a search first) and you will work it out.

Ivan

[64bit]

The rods I have in my 4efte came from a wreck Starlet Gi (4efe). For the last 8 months I have been wondering how the 4efte rods came to be in a 4efe. This thread now explains it all. Thanx guys.

[sharrychris]

Hi, This post of mine will surely updates knowledge and contain valuable information. However I would like suggestions about some specific information. If you can help me then please send me a private message. Many Thanks,

[gaz d]

Can these engines be directly swopped in an EP91?

[ivan]

haha, your welcome mate :P

[Jay]

An external inspection only as I have a few plans for this little motor:

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/1580/4efe1001et2.jpg

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/2761/4efe1002nk9.jpg

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/5356/4efe1003cc3.jpg

Manifold is rather different. All the runners seem to have a more equal flow compared to the 4EFTE and it's runner 3 restriction.

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7977/4efe1006yq3.jpg

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/4861/4efe1007sn6.jpg

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/8640/4efe1009hp7.jpg

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/3932/4efe1008wc1.jpg

A shot of the engine minus the manifold seems a little familar:

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/2715/4efe1010uz0.jpg

Pink injectors, the nozzles look the same as the 4EFTE units but a different part number makes me doubt it:

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/3439/4efe1011tf1.jpg

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/8970/4efe1012fn2.jpg

Comparison to the 4EFTE injector:

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/830/4efe1013um9.jpg

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9089/4efe1016ae8.jpg

Here's a shot of the distributor. It's a single unit rather than the seperated 4EFTE system.

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/3711/4efe1017go0.jpg

Gaz - yes, same mounts but there are a few issues I haven't figured out just yet on the swap. The ECU would be required and it needs an idle control valve present. Something the UKDM Sportif doesn't appear to have.

[EP54]

correct 2 a certin degree all jdm ep82 starlets are rated 100ps gi,seoils and so on pre 95.95<on wer rated 75 to 88bhp dependin on model. glanza s ecu fits all ep91 jdm na models.

[jezza323]

just a note

dizzy's (well actually the CAS part of the dizzy) differ between the EP82 model 4efe's and the EP91 4efe's. they look the same externally, but the EP82 model has an extra pickup for the cyl 1 reset. you need this to run an aftermarket ECU without having to run in batch fire mode.

the later EP91's must all be batch fire! no other way for for it to work

[Jay]

Cheers for the info, this thread is building up nicely.

Something I noted when reading one of the brochures - the EP85 (which the engine in my pics is from) was stated as 98ps. I'm guessing it is transmission related.

Agree? Disagree?